Care-frontation: Adaptable HR as a Business Necessity with Art Kimbrough

Most businesses are paying for HR. Fewer are getting a return on it. Not because of budget or headcount, but because of how they frame what HR is for. When it’s treated as compliance and administration, that’s what it becomes. When it’s treated as a people infrastructure that drives culture, speed, and decision-making, the whole organization moves differently. 

Episode Summary

In this episode of People-ing with Purpose, Mary Beth Meadows and Katie Saliba sit down with Art Kimbrough—longtime CEO, Vistage Florida Chair, client of Personnel Resources for over a decade, and author of the new book Fit for the Fight. Art brings an unusual perspective: ten years as a senior HR executive inside a publicly held company, followed by two decades running his own business. He has lived both sides of the table. The conversation covers where people strategy shows up in business performance, why small and mid-sized business owners keep hitting the same growth ceiling, and the concept Art calls “care-frontation”—a way of building trust and accountability at the same time. 

Art’s central argument is plain and direct: without a strong people structure, you don’t have a business. The episode makes the case that HR is not a cost center or an HR police department, but rather an “office of how can we.” When it operates that way, adaptability, execution, and resilience all follow. 

Guest Bio 

Art Kimbrough is a CEO advisor, Vistage chair, speaker, and author with more than two decades of experience as a business owner and operator. He serves as Group Chair for Vistage Florida's Central Panhandle, working with CEOs and business owners to make better decisions, grow faster, and improve profitability. He is also Chairman and CEO of Overstreet Funeral Group, an investment company that owns and manages funeral homes and cemeteries across the Southeast. His book, Fit for the Fight, focuses on adaptability and resilience under pressure, built around the framework (Acceptance + Action) × Attitude. He is based in the Panama City, Florida and Dothan, Alabama areas. 

What You'll Learn

Mary Beth, Katie, and Art discuss: 

1. How Art came to understand the real value of HR from both sides: as a senior executive and as a small business owner 
2. The Jim Whaley Tires story and the question that reframes how leaders think about training 
3. Why leaders ignore HR until they can’t and the ceiling they always hit when they do 
4. The shift from HR as the “personnel office” to “HR police” to “office of how can we” 
5. Art’s adaptability formula: (Acceptance + Action) × Attitude, and how it translates to business execution 
6. What COVID revealed about the relationship between culture and survival 
7. Control Data Corporation as a case study in what happens when HR stops enabling managers 
8. Care-frontation: what it is, where it comes from, and why trust and accountability have to work together 
9. Fit for the Fight: the book Art wrote after surviving throat cancer 

If this episode made you think differently about whether HR is a cost center or a business driver at your organization, share it with a founder, operator, or leader in your network who is feeling that pressure right now. For more on HR outsourcing, payroll, compliance, and building people infrastructure that actually scales with your business, visit PREmployerInc.com or PartnerWithExperts.com. 

Connect with PRemployer

• Visit our website 
• Subscribe to our blog
• Connect with our hosts on LinkedIn: 
  • Katie Saliba 
  • Mary Beth Meadows 

Transcript

Mary Beth (00:00) 

Welcome to People-ing with Purpose, a podcast dedicated to helping companies manage staffing and HR. Each week, we'll offer insights to simplify your HR processes and discuss challenges people face to help you find, retain, and engage the best talent. We're your host from PR Companies. I'm Mary Beth Meadows. 

Katie (00:21) 

And I'm Katie Saliba. PR Companies is a family of companies headquartered in Southeast Alabama. We're dedicated to helping businesses maximize their success through leveraging their human capital. Join us as we share our favorite staffing and HR strategies and help you drive business growth through your most valuable asset, your people. 

Katie (00:44) 

Welcome back to People-ing with Purpose. Today we're talking about something that might shift how you think about HR entirely. What it looks like when an adaptable people strategy becomes a real business driver. 

Mary Beth (00:55) 

Because too many businesses still treat HR like back office overhead. What we've seen over and over is that companies that scale have realized it's the opposite. 

Katie (01:05) 

We're joined by Art Kimbrough, a longtime CEO, strategist, author, and Vistage Florida Chair who has spent years helping leaders make better decisions. He has seen firsthand what happens when people infrastructure is built well and when it's not. 

Mary Beth (01:20) 

Connects the dots between leadership, HR decisions, and real business outcomes, hiring quality, retention, leadership capacity, and execution. It all shows up directly in the business performance, even if leaders don't realize that people strategy is a key reason. 

Katie (01:37) 

HR should not be separate from business performance. Care frontation, as art calls it, should be one of the things driving it. 

Mary Beth (01:46) 

If you like what Art has to say, you can find his new book, Fit for the Fight, online, where books are sold or directly on ArtKimbrough.com. 

Katie (01:54) 

Here's our conversation with Art Kimbrough. 

Katie (02:01) 

Hey Art, it is so good to have you today. 

Art Kimbrough (02:04) 

It is so good to be here with you. Thanks for having me. 

Katie (02:09) 

How good. To get started, we have a little bit of history with you. Why don't you tell us a little bit about what you do and how you're connected to Mary Beth and I? 

Art Kimbrough (02:17) 

Wow. Do we have an hour? No. I'll I'll keep it short. So I first came in contact with you folks twenty some odd years ago while I was the CEO of the Jackson County Chamber of Commerce in Marianna, Florida, just thirty-five miles south of Dothan, where you are. And I can't remember the first time I the reason why, but it you know, we were your business, you work in the market, we got connected. I got to know Ben Harrison later on. I joined a Vistage group and Tallahassee. It's a CEO peer advisory group. And then the crazy ones finally asked me to take over and chair the group and Dothan. Your CEO Ben was a member of it. And I was also owner of a chain of funeral homes and cemeteries in originally in five states. of course now we've shrunk down to two, but you know, we reached a point in my business where we needed support. Not just the payroll services in there. That's just part of doing the business. But I'm an old HR guy. I've got 10 years as a senior HR executive in training organization development, HR with a publicly held company and startup in that also. So I understood from the executive level the value of the whole HR as the ecosystem of trust, communication, and support for. a well functioning organization. So that's kind of how we got acquainted and I jumped on board with you guys I think probably about twenty fifteen, ten or eleven years ago with my company as we were growing and we've got a lot of history under the dam ever since. 

Katie (04:00) 

Yes. Well, you're also a wealth of knowledge for us and we are super excited to have you today. But I would be remiss if I did not mention you're on the cusp of releasing a new book. So I don't know if you can give us a little sneak peek and a little synopsis about what it's about, but we would love to hear. 

Art Kimbrough (04:19) 

As a new author, I'll always be glad to put in a plug there. Well last is the result of a five year journey that began when I actually was physically in the best shape of my life, but had a surprise bout of throat cancer, HPV, squamous cell 16 throat cancer. I was a smoker for twenty-five years as a young guy, but it didn't have anything to do with that. Same reason young women get cervical cancer, it's the same virus. What they didn't realize when they were really developing the vaccines and other things for it, is that guys don't have a cervix, so they ignored us. And what it turned out later on in life, generally past age fifty, it shows up in our throats because truth is tonsil tissue and cervical tissue are really not biologically that different. And so for the HPV virus, it waits for us. But going through that whole journey, the throat cancer, the treatments, the surgeries, the recovery, you know, a lot of people were asking me, How did you get through all of that? And that really became the genesis for the idea of how do I explain this journey to other people? And that became the basis for the book and here it is. 

Katie (05:30) 

Amazing. 

Mary Beth (05:31) 

Well, praise God. absolutely. You are well. And in fact, you look fantastic. For our listening audience, you can't see, but it looks awesome. 

Art Kimbrough (05:39) 

All I can say is the cancer's dead. I'm alive. I'm still on a feeding tube for life. That's one of the consequences. Of course, I don't actually have the tube. I can't swallow solids anymore because of the damage to the throat. So I have a liquid diet that I'm on. I just call it my a drink, my feeding tube. Feeding tube without the tube. But that's okay. I'm all of my biological markers are in the ideal range. I'm, you know, working on building up my strength and fitness again to get back into triathlons like I once did. But, you know, I feel great and it's just it's a blessing to be alive, folks. And God really looked after this old guy for whatever reason. So I'm just trying to live out his purpose. 

Mary Beth (06:21) 

Well, for our audience, what what he's too humble to say, but what I'll say is that art is a lifelong overachiever. So he's done all the things and written the book and this optimism that abounds from you, I think is something that's only possible when you are driven by faith. So just wanna commend you on that and tell you again how grateful and excited we are to have with you. And now we're gonna take a little pivot. And we're gonna get into some of the meat of what we're really here to talk about. And so I'll just ask you, Art, you know, you spent a long time in operations, in leadership, making lots of strategic decisions. Tell us how you think about the role that people strategy plays in a business performance. 

Art Kimbrough (07:09) 

Boy, I tell you what, unless you are just a technology engine that does not need anybody other than the technology to run the technology, all businesses are about people or about interactions with people. If you don't have a healthy culture of clear communication, trust and belief in the people you're working with right there, the dysfunctions of an organization show up and they show up on the bottom line. And if you look at any really high performing company and look at the culture, their processes, the way they interact over time, they are much stronger at a much higher ROI. And they're more efficient and they're leaner organizations because they're all working together for a common goal, a common purpose, and they really work to continuously improve themselves and be better, more vibrant. So To me, without a strong people structure, you really don't have a business. Just plain and blunt. 

Katie (08:14) 

Yeah. Got it. Yeah, people are the heart of what we do obviously here. 

Art Kimbrough (08:18) 

And they can also be the hard of what we do too. 'Cause part of what we're talking about. Yeah, they're the hard and the hardest part too because we don't get communication right all the time and our employees certainly don't, and we all show up at work with our life behind us too. And lots of stuff goes on in our lives, you know, good and bad. 

Katie (08:25) 

Ha ha. Yeah. 

Art Kimbrough (08:43) 

Everything from our b upbringing, what are the traumas in life, what set our set us on our course. And unfortunately for some people those things show up in a unhealthy way. You know, that's the job of a leader is to get the right people in the right seats with the right talent performing at the optimum. And sometimes that requires some care and nurturing and sometimes it requires some strong confrontation and correction. People management just don't gloss over the fact that this is hard work. that we do working with people. And sometimes we can be our own worst enemy too, not just the other. It's not always the other one's fault. We can do it to ourselves through bad choices and the way we choose to interact with people. 

Katie (09:25) 

Definitely. Well, when business leaders talk about growth, they usually talk about sales, operations, finance. Why do so many still underestimate the business impact of human resources? 

Art Kimbrough (09:38) 

Because it's easy to ignore. Because people are messy and lots of I'm gonna pick on highly skilled MBAs right out of school. You know, they got all the case studies, they've got all the stuff, all the theory. They're looking to go into Wall Street in the consulting terms for all they consulting firms where all they do is go in and analyze and tell somebody what to do. They're not trained to lead and manage people right out of the box. And so many of yeah, they know the theory. But until you jump out there and experience it, you know, it doesn't happen. I'm gonna share a quick example of you, Mary Beth. You know Jim Whaley, Jim Whaley Tires, one of our good friends. You know, Jim built a chain of retail stores to 10 locations and recently retired and was able to exit. What Jim did so well. I mean, that's a people business, right? They're doing dangerous work, taking tires of cars and all the other kind of stuff that goes with it. They had the most magnificent reputation for the way they treated their customers, the way they treated their employees, their safety records. And it was all because they had built into their systems, their financial and their operational systems, a strong support system for their people to train them well, hold them accountable, support them, get them more training when they need reward them for the good work. And we all saw what had happened. Just a superstar. role model business name one of the best businesses in Alabama multiple times over. 

Mary Beth (11:03) 

Sure. Yes. Can't say enough great things about Jim Whaley. And you're right. And that I think one of the telltale signs of that is that Katie and I have been at Personnel Resources a long time, Katie over ten years, me over thirty. And I can't say this about very many of my clients. Not one time in my thirty year history here have I ever gotten an application from one of Jim Whaley's employees. Right. 

Art Kimbrough (11:25) 

Mm-hmm that speaks to it right there, right? 

Mary Beth (11:28) 

And I'm saying I love all my clients, but I can't say that about everybody. And so that is special. 

Art Kimbrough (11:34) 

That is special. One other sidebar in there. Occasionally someone does get stolen by another competitor from Jim. Sure. I can almost guarantee every time it happens, it wasn't a real loss for Jim Whaley. Jim adopted a philosophy some years ago that one of our speakers in our visit group helped him understand. He said, think about this. You know, CEOs sometimes worry, I train them, spend all this money training them, and then they go and leave me. That's the wrong question. 

Katie (11:46) 

Yeah. 

Mary Beth (11:47) 

You guys have a great core group. 

Art Kimbrough (12:02) 

question is what if you don't train them and they stay? That's what I figured out. 

Katie (12:05) 

Yes. 

Mary Beth (12:10) 

Preach it. Preach it, brother R. Preach it. So we've I think we've made a good case here for why it's important. Right. Right. You know, it does show up in the financials, shows up in your retention, shows up in your customer service, shows up in your reputation, shows up in your accolades. It's the conduit that allows you to grow all of those things. But from your perspective, what does it look like when HR is functioning as a business driver instead of a cost center? You mentioned that you think the reason that people don't do it is because it's hard. Or because it's messy. So how do we get companies, how do we get the people listening to us to make it a priority and to treat it as a business driver? 

Art Kimbrough (12:48) 

You know, that's a real challenge and so much of it, Mary Beth, comes from where that individual leader's coming from. And what is their background? Do they look and I I'm gonna point to some of the old school guys in the fifties and sixties, right? Workers were a commodity and you know, you just put in there and you kick butt, tick names, they were expected to show up, grind out, send home, replace when they wear out. And really not much care and concern, particularly in the labor intensive manufacturing sectors and things like that. Now the white collar roles where you have more interactions in the office and some things like that, it tended to be better. But I can tell you some folks in the accounting world in the days when back office accounting systems were really big, it was very cutthroat in those those arenas. But in the small to mid sized business world, what happens often is the founder and CEO of the company hasn't ever worked with a large enterprise where they've really been developed themselves to understand how those kinds of systems work. So they don't know what they don't know. And some of them build wonderful businesses without much resource and much help. And some people just there's kind of a natural get it. But what many of miss and where I like to try to help make the case as we're doing right now is As you grow your business, you're gonna hit a ceiling of capability. And the ceiling is either you as the leader right here, or it's the organization and the systems that are there. You're gonna hit a ceiling and it's gonna affect your growth. At some point, you've got to put in as you just even the quantity and the number of people, you've got to have the kind of talent selection processes. You've got to have the kind of filters to identify the people. You gotta know what their roles are and be able to find people that match those roles that are suited for those kinds of roles. So that's just the talent acquisition side of it. Then there's the training and support and development of those people. That's an HR function. Yeah. It's not always outsourced, but if you don't have it, you're gonna be hiring somebody to help you get it. And then there's just the pure administration side of it. There's a lot of regulations that are out there that can get you in a lot of trouble. And I can assure you, most of us don't know all of the landmines we can step on. And education by T V news broadcast is not a very good education to do it. There's just a lot of things you need to know. And I would much rather have an HR expert who understands employment law on my side helping advise me than waiting for the lawyer to show up on my door because somebody in my team or I had done something stupid or out of bounds or maybe we didn't, maybe we're just being accused of it, but don't know how to respond to it and we end up making things work. So that expert resource in that dimension to me is one of the most valuable resources for me as a leader, in addition to the training, development, search, selection, and so forth. 

Katie (15:58) 

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think what we do, obviously with PR employer and outsourcing and HR, we see that value. We wanna help you on the back end while you run your business. We wanna help be your HR and protect you from all of those situations. So I appreciate you saying. 

Art Kimbrough (16:15) 

I've got to give you a little plug there because particularly in my Mississippi location with a young manager that you guys know well has gone in and had to take a dysfunctional organization. And he's got to get some training. You guys have helped select and hire some people for him, you know, got the filters down so he had some good choices to make. And then, you know, on the back end of it, we've had some employee dysfunction that required some terminations and helping him. understand how to do it right. Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. And make sure we didn't end up with a liability issue. Those were practical ROIs for for me and my little business. And there's only about eight employees in that location. Yeah. So this is not a eighty employee operation. You know, you guys are really valuable in the smaller businesses where I can't afford to have my own team. You have become my team. So my plug for you, Katie. 

Katie (17:10) 

Appreciate that. So let's make this a little bit more concrete in your experience. What are the business problems that get better when HR is working as it should? 

Art Kimbrough (17:20) 

Well, you list on some of the things we talked about, things like hiring quality, turnover, manager effectiveness, speed to execution, and leadership bandwidth. All of those are critical, but I want to, for the purpose of our discussion, focus on one that I think many people overlook. I'm gonna use that speed to execution. And here's what this means for me in an organization. Part of my book, as I've written about here, the key theme is adaptability. And I developed a formula for adaptability that simply says when you face a major issue, a life crisis, a cliff that's going to change the direction of everything you do, whether it's in your business or your personal life, you've got to do two things first. You've got to figure out a way to accept the reality. How quick can you get past your own emotions to accept the reality and understand what is the truth? So you can then make good quality. decisions or take the actions you need to do it. So acceptance plus action multiplied by your attitude or in the case of a business to cultural strength. So I translate the personal side of acceptance and action and attitude in the business language to speed to truth, decision velocity, and cultural strength multiplied by the cultural strength. If you've got an open and honest, frictionless communication system in your organization, you're going of the people from the bottom to the top, sideways, vendors, customers, market to you. You're going to get to the truth quickly and you're going to be able to have better data to make a better decision quicker, sooner, and get there before your competitors or others that are dealing with it. And if you've got a robust culture of high quality people in the right seats, well trained, your execution is flawless. And so that's the way I look at speed of execution, really representing all of those things that are there. 

Mary Beth (19:16) 

Wow, and adaptability. I love that that is one of the themes in your book. And that's certainly a quality that you have demonstrated throughout your life. But it's so true, right? Think about in business the good things, the opportunities that are coming. And if you've got the team and the culture in place that you know that can roll with the punches, I think about 2020 and I think about when we were all going through COVID and the amount of adaptability, how we were all having to in There were so many problems that none of us had ever experienced. You know, it's normal in a business to have somebody on the team that hasn't experienced something, but there's usually somebody somewhere that has experienced something like it that you can lean on. But in twenty twenty, I didn't know anybody that had ever lived through taken a business through a pandemic. I didn't know anybody. 

Art Kimbrough (20:06) 

I mean, I know you've had some clients and I did too, whose revenues went from dropped ninety percent, a hundred percent. I mean, they literally went out of business overnight. Some of were able to to hang on and through some resources the government, others eventually come back. Many did not. But the ones who had a resilient culture and a sharp mindset and the sharp people to stop, pause, don't waste time. But get past the emotion and start figuring out how to navigate and adapt and how to pivot in different directions. I know just as many businesses that came out on the other side of it, better, faster, stronger, quicker, with new products, new solutions, and new endeavors. So while there were a lot of failures to through no fault of their own for many, because there was no adapting to a market that just disappeared from you. And if you didn't have a strong financial intellectual foundation in your business to find another market and another product, you were just gone. But so many of the others just found new markets and new pivots and are flourishing because of it. And it's all about that adaptability skill and mindset. 

Mary Beth (21:17) 

Well, that's why I think it's so interesting that you selected that as one of the real hallmarks and benefits of having a strong HR culture. Because I think many people that Katie and I talk to think about HR only from a compliance standpoint. You know, they think about it from HR as something I have to endure because I don't want to be in trouble. I have to tolerate HR because I, you know, I don't want to be sued, that kind of thing. But what happens when you shift your mindset and really think about Harnessing the power of a strong HR team and you build a c a team that's got this phenomenal adaptability. And now you're in a position where you're becoming a market leader in your industry because you've got the ability to pivot. And whether it's to take advantage of an opportunity, whether it's to fix a problem, whatever that pivot is, but you've got the wherewithal and the bandwidth to be able to do that and to not just live through it but to actually flourish. I mean that is where the good stuff comes. 

Art Kimbrough (22:17) 

We know and very bath, I think it's we we have to be honest with the fact that you had to follow the history of what HR began with. It was just basically personnel administration and delivering pay and checking time cards and all the other stuff there. Somewhere along the line between the time it was called the personnel office and the HR office in there, it started gaining more strength and more importance, but it still ended up for many decades as the HR police. It was the office of telling me what I can't do, not what I can do. Yes. Right. And you remember those days, right? And I I think wasn't really until the nineties that it really started shifting toward what can HR do for us as opposed to telling us what we can't do. And I can tell you vividly, I was with a company that literally failed, a multi billion dollar company. It doesn't exist anymore, Control Data Corporation. In the seventies and eighties it was the big supercomputer company. It was you had IBM and then you had the bunch, Burrus, Univac, NCR, Control Data, and Honeywell. Control Data didn't exist. All the others are more than something else. Right. But why did it not exist? Well, number one, it tried to be everything to everyone. It ended up being nothing to no one. And two, they were in that era where the HR police became so strong and they started taking the authority away from the managers to make decisions on hiring and who can fit. And they put so many barriers to getting rid of a bad employee. I mean, it literally could take you a year to get rid of a totally dysfunctioning employee because of some fear crazy over over the lawsuit, right? Well, and the managers and then, you know, as soon as the manager bucked it, broke it, and made a good decision to get rid of but got fired because they broke the rule. Well, I think unfortunately, especially in older leaders, there's some mindset. I don't think the younger leaders of our era have that same perspective on it, but we have to be aware that for HR to be the asset it is, it has not to be the office of no. It's to be the office of how can we? For sure. Can we? And what do we need to do? What is your problem? What is the challenge? If this path won't work, how can we help you find a path that will be there that will get you to the objective and get the outcome that you need? And 

Katie (24:23) 

Sure. 

Art Kimbrough (24:38) 

you know, support teams like you guys have built and you serve many, many small and mid-sized businesses that we can't afford to have that team on our own as a full standing staff. Sure. You know, but to have you as a resource to me, I know any of my team can call you anytime, and they do probably wear you out sometimes. But it doesn't matter how dumb the question is, how naive the question is, how uncertain they are, or really how sharp it is. You're either affirming them and building them up that you're doing it the right way, or you're providing a solution and a way to achieve the objective. And that to me, it's the office of how can we that really is a quality HR department. 

Katie (25:22) 

Yeah, the confidence to move ahead for sure. Right. Well, we always like to you're so knowledgeable about HR and people and you totally speak our language in that way. Like you just you get it. People are what makes organizations really thrive. So to close, I'd really like to ask you just what is one people related investment that pays off more than leaders expect? 

Art Kimbrough (25:43) 

One people related investment. Wow. There's so many of them. That's probably the hardest question to narrow it down to one thing. But the one people investment, I would say, is developing trust with individuals, a leader who cannot convey trust and also exert accountability. You know, help that person develop the ability to be accountable. And there's a term that we use called care frontation. You know, you can crun confront someone and it's brutal and ugly and you drive them away and they won't even talk to you again, God forbid trying to get anything from them. But if you can meet people where they're at, and if there's something you need to call out, do it in a manner that they recognize it's that there, then they will come back to you. They will improve and they will share truth with you and but you've got to be vulnerable to them too. As a leader, if you don't expose your vulnerability to them and willingness to hear the hard stuff from them, why do you think they're gonna trust you to be you want them to be vulnerable to you and you're gonna beat them up? No, it's a two-way street. So building trust, whether person to person, leadership to employees, leadership to management, leadership to frontline, we're all leaders of ourselves, but we have to build in the systems that allow leaders and each of their role to function well so that the employees can lead themselves well. Yeah. 

Katie (27:12) 

Care frontation. Go to my vocabulary. 

Mary Beth (27:16) 

Yeah. I have no as long as I've known you, I don't know that I've ever heard you say that, but I've already written it down. 

Art Kimbrough (27:22) 

I give it to you shamelessly. There's not copyrighted. 

Mary Beth (27:25) 

We need to get that in Webster's. We need to get that, make that a word. 

Art Kimbrough (27:29) 

I learned a term when I first joined Vistage as a member along with the other CEOs in the peer group and the the CEO coach David Loveless was my coach at the time and that was the first time I heard that term and it just made so s so much sense. And when you put a that was part of the language of putting a group of diverse CEOs from different industries together and convincing them to just let their guard down and let everybody see what's going on. And pull or as one of them says, I'm the guy who helps pull the scabs off their wounds so they have to look at the sore and Yeah, put and treat it and do something about it. To have up here, someone that can tall you out and say, You got a blind spot there, or you know, you're missing this. You don't see what you're doing and how to harm it is, and then to sit back and say, wait a minute, you're right. If you can go peer to peer like that, there's no reason you can't go vertical to do that. And that's where 

Mary Beth (28:05) 

And the bandage gets 

Art Kimbrough (28:26) 

Alignment and trust within an organization really is built. 

Mary Beth (28:31) 

Well, Arthur Kimbrough, our friend who is also an author, we wanna congratulate you again on your book, Fit for the Fight. So check it out. It's already in my Amazon cart. 

Art Kimbrough (28:43) 

Yep, it's in Amazon or go to my website at ArtKimbrough.com. Either one, but I think you'll enjoy it. There's some good besides a bunch of stories about me and some challenges that are kind of fun and funny at times, the real lessons learned are the frameworks on how to prepare yourself to handle the worst things in life and how to recover once they happen. 

Mary Beth (29:03) 

Well, thank you for that. We'd also like to thank you for being our client. PR employer appreciates you. Personnel Resources appreciates you. Thank you for your friendship, your many years of service to Vistage, which has been an organization that has helped our company, shaped our company's future dramatically. So thank you very much for all that you mean to us and that all that you've done to help us. And we hope that our listeners today have taken from this that HR is not separate from business performance. It's actually one of the things driving it. So thank you for being with us today and for our listeners. You can learn more about art in the show notes. And we will see you next time on People and with Purpose. 

Katie (29:49) 

Thank you for tuning in to People-ing with Purpose, a PR companies podcast. You can always get more information at PRemployerInc.com and PartnerWithExperts.com. 

Mary Beth (30:00) 

Be sure to like and follow us on social media, and you can find us everywhere you listen to podcasts. Until next time, happy people-ing.